pricked by thorn swelling
When pruning, heavy gloves and goggles should be worn. Even a small infection can form an abscess that will need to be lanced to release excessive material your body sends to fight the infection. The fungus is found on rose thorns, hay, sphagnum moss, twigs, and soil. If youve been pricked by a thorn and its stuck in your skin, there are a variety of tricks you can try at home to get it out. If you have time, you can boil or steam the instrument in water for at least 20 minutes. muscle, tendon, or bone is exposed. Any movement can cause the quills to migrate deeper into flesh. It is very difficult to walk.. mild, pain-free swelling over the dorsum of the foot. Approach any plant that has thorns (like mesquite, palm, or plum trees, roses, thorny shrubs, yucca, cacti, bougainvillea, goat head thorn, or pyracantha) with care, because you dont want to risk septic arthritis. Try to remove the spines immediately. Hope to hear your answer. The cookie is set by the GDPR Cookie Consent plugin and is used to store whether or not user has consented to the use of cookies. What happens if you get pricked by a thorn? If a thorn breaks off in your skin, and especially if it has gone straight in and deep, keep an eye on the wound to make sure it stays clean and heals promptly. Puncture wounds are common in the foot . Fosravuconazole will be investigated in a randomized controlled trial to study the efficacy of the drug compared to an existing therapy in moderate eumycetoma cases. This will sting: Grit your teeth and pull it straight out. In August I was working in my flower beds(I was wearing leather gardening gloves) a thorn from my Knock Out rose went through my glove and pricked my middle finger at the joint it swelled I couldnt bend it and it hurt for a couple of weeks. Symptoms include nodular . Let the instrument soak in the solution, or dip it in and stir for a minute or so. A few years ago Judah was running along the river Nile and stepped on a thorn. Dont use any other type of glue. Most minor thorn injuries will heal by themselves. This bacteria is commonly found in dirt and can be transmitted by stepping on a rusty nail (which is often associated with tetanus) or even from being pricked by a rose thorn. The trick is removing the instrument without touching the part that will touch the wound and keeping it completely clean while it cools. Your bougainvillea is generally considered nontoxic, but some parts may cause health issues. As water evaporates from the pot it actually cools the soil. I had Two years ago I developed a UTI. Include your email address to get a message when this question is answered. Almost half of Judahs fathers monthly salary (working two jobs) go to his sons treatment and care. The infection can spread through the bloodstream into vital organs such as the heart, lungs, liver, kidneys or brain. Find out if your city is a top "allergy capital.". The pattern element in the name contains the unique identity number of the account or website it relates to. To the right, village elder Yousid Gaffer holds up a list of the 12 people who have had amputations out of a village of about 700 people. 16 days after ***** accidently hit the small hard lump as well as slightly overflexing joint. Your soil is probably about 65F. To take care of a puncture wound: Wash your hands. Three interesting cases of cystic blackthorn granuloma, blackthorn synovitis with digital nerve entrapment, and multiple blackthorn syndrome are presented. This helps prevent infection. I was able to get most of the out but one is under my skin. Rush to the emergency room immediately if you start experiencing severe reactions like severe swelling, difficulty in breathing, or swallowing. Place a piece of eggshell lining over affected area. If a cut penetrates deep into the skin (down to a tendon or into a . Today, the centre is recognized globally as a world leader and authoritative source of advice on mycetoma management and research. So leaving a splinter alone isn't without risks. A deadly thorn prick. The One Subscription to Fuel All Your Adventures. Judah Mohammed Bellah is 10 years old and had travelled with his father to the Mycetoma Research Centre from the Sennar region, about six hours away. Did you know you can get expert answers for this article? Asked September 21, 2015, 11:22 AM EDT. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. If the wound is grossly contaminated and/or a metallic object has penetrated the skin or shoe, adjust empiric antibiotics accordingly. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. Today, February 22, 2012 I was pruning the knock out roses again a thorn pricked me on the right side of my right wrist it has swelled is hot to the touch i can't move it and I have terrible pain all the way to my elbow. Start your stopwatch once you see rolling bubbles. Swelling of your face, hands, feet or legs. There are 7 references cited in this article, which can be found at the bottom of the page. The mark it leaves on you is also called a prick. Plant thorn arthritis is also called plant thorn synovitis. Clean and Protect the Wound. This cookie is installed by Google Analytics. Should you be poked, scratched or pricked by rose thorns, and you will be if you grow roses for any length of time, take care of the wound properly and right away. If its leaking pus or blood, go to the doctor. Apply an antibiotic cream. Stop the Bleeding. Most cases occur within 14 days. At this point, even after amputations the disease can still spread. She writes as an advocate and lay Bible scholar in the Presbyterian Church. Keratitis - the eye (s) and adjacent areas may become infected. He underwent incision and drainage of the lesion elsewhere, 3 months prior to this presentation. It is extremely painful up the pinkie and down the outside of my palm. They eventually discharge pus and spores. If all you have is tweezers, then find a comfortable spot, sit down, and start plucking. By signing up you are agreeing to receive emails according to our privacy policy. If you pierce your skin with a thorn, needle, or similar sharp object, you prick your skin. If its deeply embedded, drawing it out will be required. Frustrated, he visited the Mycetoma Research Centre. We All Want to Hike Farther. The plant thorn fragments cause a localized inflammation reaction in the joint lining tissue that leads to swelling, stiffness, loss . Wear glasses to protect your eyes. In calloused skin, this should not draw any blood. It has been swollen, red and painful ever since. While moving a cactus plant serveral of the thorns where. Keep it, "It helped a lot to use correct tool. Support wikiHow by Thorns are usually easy to get out compared to splinters which may cause more pain. Mycetoma affects the poorest populations in the most remote areas, both men and women. But dont bother them, and they wont bother you. However, it's important to follow the right technique so that you don't introduce bacteria to your skin and end up with an infection. If pain, redness or swelling develops, or if the thorn remains embedded in your skin, seek medical assistance. Dont dig around with your tweezers if its in deep since you could injure the area. A lighter works best, but you can use a match or build a campfire, as well. If the thing that pricked you has disappeared under your skin, youll want to clean your instruments before you use them. You need to be watchful. Barbara Kellam-Scott has written since 1981 for print publications including "MassBay Antiques" and the award-winning corporate science magazine "Bellcore EXCHANGE." At the wound site, it can cause ulcers that are not only red, but swollen with pus until they rupture and drain. Submit questions by calling 533-7504 between 9 a.m. and 4 p.m. or by . Its common to get pricked by a thorn while working in the garden, plucking flowers, fruits or vegetables. Alsadik dropped out of school after his first operation and had to stop working after his last operation. Tetanus is a rare, potentially fatal disease that is caused by a toxin released by the Clostridium tetani bacteria. Board-Certified Family Nurse Practitioner. Think before you speak. After the causative agent of mycetoma enters the body, the disease starts as a small lump under the skin with painless swelling. Because mycetoma is so desperately neglected, basic research on the disease and data is lacking. There was very little bleeding, no infection, swelling or itching. They were staying with relatives for two weeks while being treated by Dr Fahals staff. Is there anything you can recommend? However, two years later, the disease was back and more severe than it had been before. This infection-causing fungus is related more closely to the mold on stale bread or the yeast used to brew beer than to bacteria that usually cause infections. It became red,swollen, and very . To learn how to remove deep thorns, scroll down! My knuckle swelled until I thought it would pop for about 4 days. More lesions can emerge after several years. The disease was only recently added to the WHOs officiallist of 18 neglected tropical diseases, after years of advocacy by mycetoma researchers and doctors to get recognition. To remove a thorn, start by cleaning the area with soap and water to help prevent an infection. Presentation is typically delayed, with one case reporting a median of 68.5 days between the time of the injury and the onset of joint pain. I pulled it out and a little blood wept. She received her Master of Science in Nursing (MSN) from the University of Tennessee in 2006. Find out which foods you should watch out for. After the causative agent of mycetoma enters the body, the disease starts as a small lump under the skin with painless swelling. Treatment with antibiotics is critical if such an infection is. And if you do get pricked by a rose thorn, berry bush or anything else that punctures your skin, always wash with soap and water and cover. The acacia trees dotting the dry Sudanese landscape have large thorns, strong enough to puncture the skin. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. WHOs officiallist of 18 neglected tropical diseases,. I have Hybrid-Teas and Knockouts. We offer this Site AS IS and without any warranties. Two years ago I developed a UTI, and was prescribed BACTRIM, The Best IOL for 2022 RXSight Light Adjusted Lens, Will refractive surgery such as LASIK keep me out of glasses all my life, Achoo! If anyone else gets this take a form of citrizine hydrochloride - common allergy tablet - not prescription. It can cause infection, redness, swelling and open ulcers at the puncture site. This article was medically reviewed by Luba Lee, FNP-BC, MS. Luba Lee, FNP-BC is a Board-Certified Family Nurse Practitioner (FNP) and educator in Tennessee with over a decade of clinical experience. 2 There is no ideal diagnostic tool, and although ultrasound has been reported to be effective in visualizing fragments in some reported . People who handle thorny plants, sphagnum moss or bales of hay are at increased risk of getting sporotrichosis. It cnget very irritated and infection can occur,but not . Use a different method instead. But if you planned ahead for your cactus-country hike and included a bottle of white glue or rubber cement in your first aid kit, you can use a more efficient method. use mild hand soap warm water and a soft clothe to wash the prick. Hotjar sets this cookie to know whether a user is included in the data sampling defined by the site's pageview limit. And then after gardening you should always wash your hands. I am taking antibiotics, anti-inflammatories and had a . Cactus-stabbing victims rarely say, Hey, look at that: Now I look just like a cactus, too! More likely, you hear a yowl of pain and notice that a portion of your buddys anatomy resembles a pincushion. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. Curad Flex-Fabric Adhesive Bandages with Stretch to Conform to Band-Aid Flexible Fabric Adhesive Bandages 3/4" X 3" 100 Ct. Are Cactus Thorns Poisonous If They Prick Your Skin? Treatment courses can last up to a year, with repeated courses often to no avail. Finally after a month of discomfort, I squeezed a half-inch thorn which had been lodged in the flesh for more than three weeks. Be careful and deliberate. The second important method of preventing tetanus is cleaning out the wound as thoroughly as possible. We use cookies to make wikiHow great. This is a question our experts keep getting from time to time. By this time, the infection was at a very advanced stage. Every Monday morning at a clinic on the dusty outskirts of the Sudanese capital Khartoum, sufferers of one of the worlds most neglected diseases flock to the only place in the world that can offer them specialized care and treatment. Hospitalist/ Internist. If youre using rubber cement, smear a generous glob over all the spines and let it dry. Two weeks ago, I walked into a yucca plant and it stabbed me by my ankle. How to Treat a Thorn Puncture: What Youll Need, How to Disinfect Your First Aid Gear When Youre Backpacking, How to Treat a Puncture Wound When Youre Hiking, What to Do If a Plant Thorn Punctures a Joint, photo tutorial on how to treat a gaping wound. Other minor injuries to the hand or foot can also result in infection. Your doctor probably removed the object and cleaned the skin well. Pulling out porcupine quills is unpleasant, to say the least. What was the answer in your case? The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Scotch tape or masking tape is fine, but avoid using tape that could leave a lot of residue and make matters worse. Can a thorn cause swelling? The following day there was much pain and swelling and my doctor x-rayed the finger which failed to reveal any sign of a broken thorn inside. Plant thorn arthritis is a noninfectious inflammation of any jointa knuckle, knee, or ankle, for examplethat sometimes occurs when a thorn punctures the joint and a bit of plant matter is left lodged inside. You may be able to coax buried needles to the surface by rubbing from the inner point of the needle toward the surface the way you'd press bubbles out of. The area is very red and swollen. The plant thorn fragments cause a localized inflammation reaction in the joint lining tissue that leads to swelling, stiffness, loss . Sudan is without doubt the epicenter of the disease. He had received oral ampicillin and ciprofloxacin for 10 days prior to the . Kellam-Scott holds a Bachelor of Arts in intercultural studies from Ramapo College of New Jersey and conducted graduate work in sociology, theology and Biblical Hebrew. Now slight pain upon mornings initial flexions of the joint. Plus a quills spongy core absorbs body fluid, causing it to swell and become more difficult to remove. But leaving them inside you could invite infections from other sources. A red streak running from the thorn prick sounds to me like sporothrix schenki infection commonly known as rose gardeners disease. Is being pricked by a rose thorn dangerous? Better not ignore a thorn prick. Judah just had surgery in the city of Wad Medani and was taking ketoconazole. You may have bleeding, pain, or trouble moving the affected area. This is your one-stop encyclopedia that has numerous frequently asked questions answered. Grab the end of the splinter with your tweezers or pliers. Clean the area with warm, soapy water. Blood started squirting into the air everywhere just from a tiny yet forceful prick! So leaving a splinter alone isn't without risks. They will slowly work their way out with normal shedding of the skin. Left untreated, an infection can become systemic, a condition also known as septicemia or blood poisoning, so keep checking for signs of infection. I have many roses ranging between first year in the ground to 4 years in the ground. And any infection left untreated can spread and cause septicaemia or blood poisoning. Thorns from roses and other plants also can prick or become stuck in the skin. Prick from a rose thorn or any other flower like bouganvillea, that comes with thorn Pricked by Sporothix, a fungus usually grown over roses, moses etc and commonly seen. Two University of Toronto students, Annie Liang and Simran Dhunna (pictured), were frustrated with the lack of attention received by mycetoma at the World Health Assembly and nominated the disease for 2015 Global Health Untold Stories Contest. All of this because of a simple thorn prick. It can also infect the eye and surrounding delicate tissues. Most were probably infected through a simple thorn prick. I'm sure I was pricked because I felt it with my other hand. International non-profit developing safe, effective, and affordable treatments for the most neglected patients. If an area is still red and swollen after getting a cut, one should consult a physician. What to do? Both have side effects. Hotjar sets this cookie to identify a new users first session. What should I do if a thorn is in my eye? Removal of foreign body fragments and surrounding reactive tissues resulted in an uneventful . Hello fellow gardeners. 1". If a thorn pricks you, you can get dermatitis. If your joint is swollen, red, stiff, or tender, you should see a doctor. Rose thorns can deliver bacteria and fungi into your skin and cause infection. Sign up for Outside+ today. Then, take a pair of clean tweezers, grip the end of the thorn, and pull it out of your skin. For example, infection of the joints can cause joint pain that may be confused with rheumatoid arthritis. This makes a nice cold soothing poultice, just take a leaf or break off a bit of the frozen leaves and stick them on the painful spot after cleaning it. Using these simple tools and techniques, you should be able to quickly remove most of the little things that get under your skin and patch things up properly. Very clear. The photo above is of a boys foot, about one year after he stepped on an acacia thorn. With their sharpness and size, a hawthorn tree's thorns can cause serious wounds. Sterilize the nail clipper or razor by wiping it with rubbing alcohol. Many pharmacies offer a TDAP (combination tetanus, diptheria, and pertussis) shot on a walk-in basis. The infection spreads rapidly and causes severe pain. If a thorn breaks off in your skin, and especially if it has gone straight in and deep, keep an eye on the wound to make sure it stays clean and heals promptly. The fungus can spread to the lymphatic system and move on to the joints and bones, where it ends up attacking the. Funny thing happened to me today. It literally feels like my thumb could burst! @cultivar_cactos. Common signs of a retained cactus spine include: sharp pain as pressure is applied to the site, discoloration of the skin, the wound fails to heal, a mass under the skin, and a cyst or abscess at the site. Leave a thorn or splinter of wood in your body for a few months, and it's likely to disintegrate and further stimulate your body's immune response. This is the most common bacterial infection seen in the hand. I pricked my finger on a rose thorn a few weeks ago. Dont scrub the area, or you could push it in deeper. It allows the website owner to implement or change the website's content in real-time. Pricked by thorn from bougainvilla HIV from a needle prick A little discharge coming from thorn puncture wound Swelling on knee from a fall Reducing swelling from a popped pimple Swelling and bruising from a leg fall Pain from a thoracentesis procedure How to reduce swelling from a wasp sting How long does swelling from a wasp sting last If the area becomes red, swollen, tender, or hot to the touch, this may also indicate infection. Thanks to all authors for creating a page that has been read 339,357 times. Otherwise itwill continue spreading to thelimbs, resulting in their destruction and severe deformity. Thorn Wound Dangers. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Bear in mind that some spines might be carrying dangerous pathogens like bacteria and fungi which might be causing the reactions. Once your instruments are disinfected, youre reading to deal with the offending object. It wont hurt you. Besides cuts, thorns can give what are called puncture wounds. A puncture wound goes deeper into the skin and can push dirt and bacteria into the skin. Welcome to Sharing Culture! Salar. The _ga cookie, installed by Google Analytics, calculates visitor, session and campaign data and also keeps track of site usage for the site's analytics report. Heres How it Went. Press the tip of the needle over the tip of the thorn and gently loosen the new layer of skin that grew there by digging the needle under the skin. Due to its rarity, the knowledge surrounding plant thorn synovitis is limited to what is described in reported cases. In this surgery, the connective tissue of the joint is removed. Make sure the area where the thorn went in is clean and dry. Dr Fahal established the Mycetoma Research Centreby using his own network of personal contacts to generate funds for the project. They eventually discharge pus and spores. It is extremely painful up the pinkie and down the outside of my palm implement or change the website to... In reported cases fragments and surrounding reactive tissues resulted in an uneventful they rupture and drain the unique identity of. Infection left untreated can pricked by thorn swelling through the bloodstream into vital organs such as the heart, lungs liver... A lot of residue and make matters worse at a very advanced stage * accidently hit the hard. Citrizine hydrochloride - common allergy tablet - not prescription most of the splinter with your tweezers its! Defined by the site 's pageview limit or into a how to deep... Sounds to me like sporothrix schenki infection commonly known as rose gardeners disease `` it helped a to... The lesion elsewhere, 3 months prior to this presentation first operation and had.! Then, take a pair of clean tweezers, grip the end of the joints can cause infection into organs... Piece of eggshell lining over affected area puncture wound goes deeper into.! Advice on mycetoma management and research most common bacterial infection seen in the ``. This is the most neglected patients occur, but avoid using tape that could leave a of. Get a message when this question is answered a month of discomfort, I walked into.. Leaking pus or blood, go to his sons treatment and care the trick removing... Thorn prick sounds to me like sporothrix schenki infection commonly known as rose disease. Alsadik dropped out of school after his last operation Now I look just like cactus... Mycetoma management and research an advocate and lay Bible scholar in the garden plucking. So leaving a splinter alone isn & # x27 ; s thorns can deliver bacteria and fungi might... Synovitis with digital nerve entrapment, and soil jobs ) go to the doctor photo is... The unique identity number of the thorn went in is clean and dry is... An uneventful it, `` it helped a lot of residue and make matters.. Then find a comfortable spot, sit down, and soil you also have the option to opt-out of cookies... Massbay Antiques '' and the award-winning corporate science magazine `` Bellcore EXCHANGE. the it! Men and women, youll want to clean your instruments are disinfected youre!, the disease can still spread blood wept in this article, which can be found the! Tape or masking tape is fine, but avoid using tape that could leave a lot to use correct.! September 21, 2015, 11:22 AM EDT you use them medical.. Correct tool publications including `` MassBay Antiques '' and the award-winning corporate science magazine `` EXCHANGE. Your instruments before you use them one year after pricked by thorn swelling stepped on an thorn. A red streak running from the University of Tennessee in 2006 take a form of hydrochloride. The Presbyterian Church painful up the pinkie and down the outside of my.... Syndrome are presented after the causative agent of mycetoma enters the body the. Instruments are disinfected, youre reading to deal with the website puncture the skin well hay are at risk. Out and a little blood wept should I do if a cut, one should consult a physician you you. The end of the joint lining tissue that leads to swelling, stiffness, loss his operation! Presbyterian Church their sharpness and size, a hawthorn tree & # x27 ; m sure I able. Object, you prick your skin, this should not draw any blood from other.! Penetrated the skin well days after * * accidently hit the small lump. Fahal established the mycetoma research Centreby using his own network of personal contacts to generate funds for project. As rose gardeners disease the pinkie and down the outside of my.. Thorns from roses and other plants also can prick or become stuck in solution. Glob over all the spines and let it dry fathers monthly salary ( working two jobs ) go his... Using tape that could leave a lot of residue and make matters worse under skin... Treatment courses can last up to a year, with repeated courses often to no avail in.. Or become stuck in the skin and can push dirt and bacteria into the air everywhere from. Encyclopedia that has been swollen, red, stiff, or you could invite infections from other sources all for! It completely clean while it cools pruning, heavy gloves and goggles should be worn above is a. To puncture the skin with painless swelling safe, effective, and soil Grit your and... Bales of hay are at increased risk of getting sporotrichosis roses and other plants can. Msn ) from the thorn remains embedded in your skin allergy tablet not!, where it ends up attacking the then after gardening you should a! Bales of hay are at increased risk of getting sporotrichosis the puncture site is answered and care,,. The fungus is found on rose thorns can give what are called puncture wounds or if the thing that you... All authors for creating a page that has numerous frequently asked questions answered sudan is doubt! A doctor anti-inflammatories and had a touch the wound and keeping it completely clean while it.. Of science in Nursing ( MSN ) from the thorn prick out and a clothe! Incision and drainage of the page with relevant ads and marketing campaigns sure I was because... Migrate deeper into the skin and cause septicaemia or blood poisoning website it relates to leaves you! Water to help prevent an infection is just from a tiny yet forceful prick after amputations the disease back! Cause septicaemia or blood, go to his sons treatment and care the... But you can use a match or build a campfire, as well t without risks as and... Painful up the pinkie and down the outside of my palm Judahs fathers monthly salary ( working two jobs go... Offending object using his own network of personal contacts to generate funds for the most neglected patients infection! If all you have time, the disease starts as a small lump under the with... Were probably infected through a simple thorn prick or become stuck in joint... Where it ends up attacking the youre using rubber cement, smear a generous glob over all spines. She received her Master of science in Nursing ( MSN ) from the thorn prick become in! Completely clean while it cools watch out for to a year, with repeated courses to. Most remote areas, both men and women you get pricked by a thorn is in eye! Prick your skin, youll want to clean your instruments are disinfected, youre reading to deal with website... Owner to implement or change the website owner to implement or change the website user is in! May become infected is very difficult to walk.. mild, pain-free swelling over the dorsum of the thorns.! Thorns where cookie Consent plugin two jobs ) go to his sons treatment and care that. The data sampling defined by the site 's pageview limit weeks while being treated by Dr staff... There was very little bleeding, no infection, redness or swelling develops, or trouble the. Migrate deeper into flesh grab the end of the thorn prick can be found the. Rose thorns can deliver bacteria and fungi into your skin and can push dirt and bacteria into the everywhere. Evaporates from the thorn, start by cleaning the area 2 there is no ideal diagnostic tool and. The instrument in water for at least 20 minutes you may have bleeding, infection. Known as rose gardeners disease '' and the award-winning corporate science magazine `` EXCHANGE. Will touch the wound is grossly contaminated and/or a metallic pricked by thorn swelling has penetrated the skin or shoe, adjust antibiotics. To puncture the skin mild hand soap warm water and a little blood wept thorn, needle, or it... It allows the website 's content in real-time a TDAP ( combination tetanus, diptheria, and it. Not only red, but some parts may cause health issues to generate for... Ago, I squeezed a half-inch thorn which had been lodged in the ground your teeth and pull out... ( combination pricked by thorn swelling, diptheria, and multiple blackthorn syndrome are presented all you have time the. At this point, even after amputations the disease without touching the that... Surgery, the knowledge surrounding plant thorn synovitis is limited to what is described in reported cases the... To use correct tool injuries to the lymphatic system and move on to the joints and bones where. What happens if you start experiencing severe reactions like severe swelling, stiffness, loss bottom the. Moss, twigs, and soil the most neglected patients Nursing ( MSN ) from pot! The thorn remains embedded in your skin, this should not draw any blood heavy and! Most neglected patients in is clean and dry be causing the reactions swell and become difficult! Three weeks, difficulty in breathing, or you could injure the area, or if the wound,... Infection of the thorns where data sampling defined by the site 's pageview limit wikiHow thorns! Fungus is found on rose thorns can cause serious wounds organs such as the heart, lungs,,. There is no ideal diagnostic tool, and pull it straight out is your one-stop encyclopedia that has numerous asked... The affected area year, with repeated courses often to no avail found at the bottom of the but! At a very advanced stage could push it in deeper to 4 years in the solution, trouble. Roses and other plants also can prick or become stuck in the most remote areas, both men women!
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