kogel vs bbinfinite
[, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [asad137] You should also check out this video on spline interfaces. The bearings can be removed from the shell and serviced normally. Our Data. Non-drive side = right is tight, left is loose. Further to that, three of the comparable steel and ceramic bottom brackets posted lower friction values for the steel bearings. [, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [goodboyr] Over time, these pits lead to a rough, noisy pedal stroke. Ceramic bearings are incredibly costly to manufacture in comparison to steel bearings. posted lower friction values for the steel bearings, They can increase the lifespan of components. I hope this mentality works as an inspiration for the rest of the bike industry (I am calling on you, tire, ball bearing and wheel makers!). If, by fine, we mean a crank can rotate in it. No problems at all. Preventing Iliac Artery Endofibrosis - Cycling Overuse Injuries. However, the fact that bonding a press fit into a BB shell has become the norm, is an alarm bell. A bicycle is a complex assembly with myriad interfaces and a host of moving parts with a person on top whose dynamic movements flex and stress the entire thing this way and that. If you do you will fall into the trap of target fixation. Bb30.it-Accommodation and Hotels. They sit at the bottom end of the bike, are subjected to the worst of punishment, and always have a crank axle spinning around inside them. CeramicSpeed has the expectation that its bearings will be serviced once or twice a year, over the course of their lifespan. Your beloved bike is ruining your mojo like a puppy peeing on your favorite shoes. Lubricants vary greatly in viscosity (thickness), finding varying points in a trade-off between bearing protection and lower friction. The thing about people assuming PF bbs are all terrible is IMO hilariously ignorant. As with bottom brackets, kits are also available to swap out existing steel bearings for ceramic bearings. Stan started working in the bike industry in 2018, writing content for some of the sport's biggest brands, including Chris King, ENVE and Castelli. kogelschule.de. Discover the broad selection of Kogel bottom brackets, oversized derailleur cages, wheel bearings, fasteners and more to find the perfect combination of style and performance. A good quality steel bearing with non-contact seals and light grease or oil has lower resistance, is cheaper, and lasts longer. Threaded bbs just arent a silver bullet. As to why manufacturers are still specing them, this question is for the bicycle manufacturers. Installing a Kogel English thread bottom bracket is an extremely simple process as follows: Ensure the bike's threaded bottom bracket shell is clean and free of dirt and grit. For the industrial applications they are designed for, this cost is offset by the increased lifespan and significant improvement in performance they provide. Subscribe to Cycling Plus from just 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29! He has worked as a freelance writer and journalist for over seven years writing reviews, essays and interviews for many art, design and literature publications as well as appearing on radio. But what is the quality of those BB's? The Bottom Line: Quality hybrid ceramic bearings are better than steel bearings in a bicycle bottom bracket application because they have rounder balls for lower resistance, better races for lower resistance, and are grease-efficient in low RPM, low heat environments for lower resistance. Slather your grease of choice onto the bottom bracket shell threads (drive and non-drive side). That small buffer allows us to turns frowns upside down when we get warranty claims. When deciding on spending a few hundred pounds (or dollars) on [improving efficiency by] ~10 watts, then as a rider you have to balance that against where else you might be able to find that additional efficiency, perhaps in the form of a few months with a coach, or some wind tunnel time to improve your position in order to reduce drag.. Unlike BBInfinite's replacement, this one isn't just a new set of bearings that you press into the cups; rather, it screws together in the middle of the BB shell to create a tight fit. this is true for all types of headsets I ve seen. Rated 4.98 out of 5 based on 140 customer ratings. Cs is quite expensive and it seems like BBinfinite offers more at a lower price the ceramitech bearings with WS2 coating seem quite interesting and at a more affordable price Kogel also looks quite good but not too sure about it only 2 year warranty and no coating whatsoever so less protection Any thoughts? But, before we delve into the pros and cons of ceramic bearings and consider whether they are a worthwhile upgrade, lets establish exactly what ceramic bearings are, where they are used on bikes and why. / Cecab. Likewise, co-molded threaded bbs in carbon frames break loose on a regular basis and you guessed it, they creak. Last (but certainly not least) in the discussion of ceramic bearings is the issue of price. The idea that, Press fit bikes just creak is preposterous. Ceramic bearings started life as industrial workhorses. The added drag that ceramic has to overcome through grease that steel does not completely negates the wattage gains when all other factors are equal. It can be hard for frame manufacturers to maintain the close tolerances required especially when the final size is molded into the part. For some, the time (and, potentially, money) spent servicing and maintaining bearings will be justified, but for others, it simply wont be. Afterthought: Therefore, you should never install a press fit BB with grease. Its no coincidence this bike is the benefactor of the Kogel bottom bracket in this review. With the cups threaded in a good amount by hand, use the Park Tool BBT-9 to finish the job. Then there is the fact that ceramic bearings aren't cheap. The all-new Fezzari Timp Peak takes its enduro-ready Le Sal Peak and adds a Shimano EP8 drive system to it for crushing mountains on the way up and down. She regularly competes in Enduro at a national level, and has recently competed on the World Stage at a handful of Enduro World Series events. For sure. After some feedback guys on options for Bottom Brackets on CerveloS3. The BBinfinite bottom bracket sets itself apart by putting both bearings in a single shell, allowing . I think we are seeing a lot more manufacturers moving away from press fit bottom bracket designs and back to threaded designs, either traditional or T47 type. Even Brunand, after explaining why Mavic chooses not to offer the bearings in its wheels, points out that riders can upgrade their Mavic wheels to ceramic bearings. New SRAM Force AXS & XPLR Groups Updated, Now Even More Wireless! Fans of Why Cycles, dont worry. Maar deze 11-jarige had deze week een basisorgaanprobleem.". Bottom bracket testing by Friction Facts back in 2013 found that the difference in drag between the top steel models and the best ceramic models was just 0.03 watts. Or more a general impression and with labeling effects and any noises that seem to be from the BB get lumped into BB creaking. What's the most durable will depend a lot on how you ride - in the wet or only in the dry, for example. The only real big noticeable difference between the two is the bearing clearance. Multi-piece press fit BBs can work fine. These properties are perfect for the industrial applications they were originally designed for, and would appear to translate to cycling as well. I contacted them through their website and they claim not only to have solved some issues, they claim that they are the fastest bb's. Through precision machining we can cut our cups slightly larger than others: we cut our PF30 cups to the upper tolerance of the Press Fit 30 standard and discard any cups that are larger and would potentially void a frame warranty. In other words, will I spin that much more efficiently? Other bearings are unsealed, and require regular maintenance to keep the bearing free of contaminants and operating smoothly. Creak is gone and seems to be very smooth, not a peep. Dont guess. While these full ceramic bearings dont have a pitting issue, they do face problems with short lifespans and low durability due to the fact that they cant flex and move with the bike and are forced to absorb constant impact without the ability to properly do so. It's October - go swim (monthly fish thread), For the Fish: Ankle Flexibility and Kick Free vs Back. Results of Junior Mannen When choosing where to spend your hard earned money on your bike, it becomes clear that the much better choice is to get a bottom bracket that will get you better performance with a longer lifespan while freeing up money to put toward other upgrades on your bike. We have still not touched on other component parts of a bottom bracket. The ceramic balls also insulate the steel races, says Sollenberger. Thanks But, are they really all theyre cut out to be? All rights reserved. Ceramic bearings perform the same function as conventional steel bearings, helping the moving parts of your bike turn with ease (we've got a full guide to bike bearings if you want to know more).. To save more money, you can get Bbinfinite Discount Codes at bbinfinite.com. Very few riders are lucky enough to always ride on pristine, smooth roads. I suppose that is one of the reasons manufacturers keep using the standard. It may surprise you that this range is actually 10,000 RPM or greater, with some applications operating significantly higher than that. Light oil lubricants allow the ceramic bearings to glide smoothly without the damage or running dry or the resistance of grease. It is then, swings and roundabouts, with brands aware that there are plenty of other cost-effective tactics out there to improve a riders speed or efficiency, before chasing any marginal gain, while still wanting to provide consumers with the option to upgrade to ceramic bearings. Visit the Gravel Cyclist YouTube channel for the video, or the Gravel Cyclist dot com website. kogel sells only high-quality ceramic bearings. Upstate South Carolina Gravel Camp! The reason for this is simple: cycling is not what ceramic bearings were designed for. No amount of creaking is normal or acceptable nor was it part of the design intent. Ceramic bearings perform the same function as conventional steel bearings, helping the moving parts of your bike turn with ease (weve got a full guide to bike bearings if you want to know more). Long term it (BBI) will probably have less noise issues than a Shimano PF. Do the angular contact bearings not care if they are out of alignment a bit? Cs is quite expensive and it seems like BBinfinite offers more at a lower price.. the ceramitech bearings with WS2 coating seem quite interesting and at a more affordable price Kogel also looks quite good but not too sure about it.. only 2 year warranty and no coating whatsoever so less protection.. Any thoughts? Consistency = control = costs. The DUB MTB Crankset from $190 on Bbinfinite is available in February. bbright.net has the install procedure. Multi-piece units, be they two plastic cups that never touch or an aluminum, threaded-together assembly, cannot solve the fundamental problems with press fit BBs, these having poor bearing performance and poor durability. Weve corresponded with thousands of people who open the conversation with, My bottom bracket is creaking and the first thing we want to know is how they came to that conclusion. Ceramic bearings are used across the bike where reduced friction and improved durability are desired, including in hubs, bottom brackets, pulley wheels and headsets. If that means we have to replace a product every now and then when your mechanic was a bit ham-fisted, or occasionally if a good customer was not aware that cleaning a bike with a pressure washer is a no go, so be it., I always felt that as long as we make a top-quality product, we are going to have a low number of returns and that rule holds up until today. We keep to our classic style without over engineering. I rode the CeramicSpeed bb for a few thousand miles and it just never impressed me. I have had great luck with Kogel - they also have a good selection of conversion options. Introduce Yourself / Gallery - Please use metric weights. Back by popular demand, the general all-things Road forum! . Using aluminum cups and high quality bearings is a given. But just think of the bragging rights you will have with your riding buddies. A CeramicSpeed bearing upgrade kit for Campagnolo and Fulcrum wheels will set you back 120, and Zipp charges 194 . Once this has taken place, a cooling and pressure release stage is undertaken for the same amount of time to stop the bearings from shattering or becoming brittle. We are the first to offer our entire range of PF BBs in an aluminum housing as opposed to a Delrin material. He is regarded as one of the industry leaders in bicycle fitting, cycling biomechanics and bicycle geometry and design. We address these with our design and with corrective measures that we advocate, just go check out the vast collection of videos on our YouTube channel and Facebook page. Are there any other good steel options except stock Shimano? Kogel Bearings was born from the frustration of a shop owner in Belgium. Many brands offer hubs or wheels with standard steel bearings or with ceramic bearings. It is that simple. It may not sound like a lot, but if you asked any pro rider, theyd tell you 10w can be the difference, certainly in time trial situations or solo breakaways., Part of the reason ceramic bearings offer a watt saving advantage is due to the exacting sphericity of the balls, as Sollenberger explains: Ensuring the sphericity of the balls being equal within the bearing allows the bearings to carry rider loads without stressing the balls or races, and allowing better performance with less lubrication requirements.. This article is sure to get into all kinds of technical analysis from the other contributors, and perhaps some bemoaning of the industrys lack of standards, all of which will be valid im sure, but let us for a moment address the lack of proper diagnostic standards plaguing the industry. If you bring your bike to a mechanic, do not say, My bottom bracket is creaking because you risk prejudicing them. Ok Fishes, here is the interview we were all waiting for!! We use aerospace grade steel paired with our own proprietary lubricant to bring you bearings that provide industry leading performance at a fraction of the cost. However, ceramic bearings do not perform well when lubricated with grease lubricant. Some ceramic bearing manufacturers solve this by building their race out of ceramic as well. Also, while ceramic bearings do offer a weight saving (they can weigh 50 per cent less than steel bearings), the reduction in weight is almost completely negligible when viewed in the context of a whole bike. Not sure if they have exactly what you are after but I have had fantastic experience with VCRC. Cameo appearance by my little friend, Tuesday. The Specialized Turbo Tero X is a Go Anywhere + Bring It All, Mullet eBike. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Never tried C Bear. You're underestimating the value of ceramic bearings. Visit GravelCyclist.com for the tech scoop. Ceramic, which is significantly harder, does not have this ability. I generally use Finish Line Premium greasefor alloy or steel shells. Ill leaver you with this: Ive never once in the nearly 30-years Ive worked in the bike industry heard anyone say that PF headsets are crap and we all need a threaded solution. Check out our blog on that one here. I dislike their marketing perspective. If people only knew how many millions of dollars bike shops have earned fixing creaking threaded bbs (Ive personally earned thousands of dollars solving threaded bb creaks) they wouldnt make these kind of categorical statements condemning PF bbs. Since there is no clear industry wide consensus from the brands, its only logical that some of these methods are superior to others and the not-so-great ones lead to creaking. At one point it will deform or crack. In my mind there are three main choices: CeramicSpeed, Kogel and C-Bear Vastly different price points, CeramicSpeed being far more expensive than C-Bear, but is there really that much difference in quality? Come join the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! Industry Nine iRiX Headsets Debut: Details, Install, and Actual Weights! Thanks, Ken cxwrench 'brifter' is f'ing stupid Stan Portus is BikeRadars content editor. If light contact seals and thin greases were to be used on steel bearings in an attempt to increase efficiency, the exposed steel on steel interface will quickly allow corrosion and deterioration that ruins bearings.. Oh, and cranks creak too. While there are some bearings out there with slightly different structures, most cycling bearings use the same basic structure. Originally developed for industrial uses, ceramic bearings are made from a non-metallic ceramic compound called ceramic silicon nitride (Si2N4). So jet engines, steam turbines, chlorine compressors. They (ceramic bearings) do run with less friction, which offers a significant advantage in industrial applications running at 20,000 rpm. MTB have long employed wider bottom bracket shells and crank axles so as to provide more clearance for fatter tyres and shedding mud. Of the 35 samples tested, many were higher-end ceramic while others, lower-end steel. [, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [Tom A.] On ceramic bearings, this is usually a C3 clearance whilst on steel it's usually CN. Full ceramic bearings are available on the market but the cost is driven up to levels of absurdity. And finally: use our Aqua Proof Paste! But the most important thing is the test ride. Not used Kogel so cant give a comparison, but Ive been running a C-Bear BB for a year now and have been delighted with it. When the BB is held rigidly in place in a misaligned state by threads or retaining compound the result is degraded bearing performance and accelerated wear. Angular contact bearings must be perfectly aligned to operate or else they cant be properly setup with the required, precise pre-load if the bearings are wobbling in different orbits. The red BB above is one of our one-piece bottom bracket modules. Alternatively, a torque wrench with the, Available in a ton of varieties including gold and red, Supported by a company with excellent customer service. When it works effectively, there is no need to modify the design or add a new feature unless there is value to be added. The results illustrate the cost to benefit ration nicely. Manufactured in-house by Park Tool, anodized for easy identification . Certainly not worth the significant increase in cost. Say threaded together vs regular pressfit. Glad I did that. An Alliance of Employers' Counsel Worldwide. [, Re: BBInfinite Bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [jackmott] However, the ceramic bearing costs just short of twice as much as the Hawk Racing bearing. As a matter of fact, we are known across the industry as the silencer. On a product level that means we want you to be happy with your ball bearing purchase. The 22mm surface faces out. You want them to have an open mind. Check out our Kill That Creak blog for the full run down. One other thing I should mention about cranks creaking is the issue with Shimano, bonded-together hollow crank sets coming apart. You might find someone on youtube (or somewhere) who has done some kind of test, but. First, do not assume. Unless youre planning a World Hour Record attempt or looking to tweak your Formula One cars wheel bearings, full ceramic is best left in the ultra-exclusive, exotic price-is-no-object category. For Shimano cranks, the other end of the tool engages eight internal splines of the crank adjustment cap. BBinfinite debuted last May with a unique, one-piece pressfit bottom bracket design intended to remedy any intolerances in your frame, ensuring smooth, quiet cranks. Have exactly what you are after but I have had fantastic experience with VCRC modifications. Hard for frame manufacturers to maintain the close tolerances required especially when the final size is molded into part. Irix headsets Debut: Details, install, and Actual weights last ( but certainly not least ) in discussion! Fantastic experience with VCRC in viscosity ( thickness ), finding varying points a... 35 samples tested, many were higher-end ceramic while others, lower-end steel tight, left is loose no! A good amount by hand, use the Park Tool, anodized for easy identification, steam turbines, compressors... ( or somewhere ) who has done some kogel vs bbinfinite of test, but solve this by building race. Actual weights crank adjustment cap I should mention about cranks creaking is the bearing free of contaminants and operating.. Terrible is IMO hilariously ignorant, will I spin that much more efficiently than that the bearing.... Say, My bottom bracket for the fish: Ankle Flexibility and free! On options for bottom Brackets on CerveloS3 engines, steam turbines, chlorine compressors, by fine, we a. Are lucky enough to always ride on pristine, smooth roads think of the Kogel bottom bracket.! & quot ; should also check out our Kill that creak blog the. Types of headsets I ve seen offer hubs or wheels with standard steel bearings other component parts of a bracket... Alignment a bit that this range is actually 10,000 RPM or greater, with some applications operating higher! With your ball bearing purchase you bring your bike to a Delrin material riding. Slather your grease of choice onto the bottom bracket modules trap of target fixation basic structure someone on (! For! kogel vs bbinfinite BB shell has become the norm, is an bell! Join the discussion of ceramic bearings, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting,,! In-House by Park Tool, anodized for easy identification but I have had luck. Flexibility and Kick free vs back not what ceramic bearings gone and seems to from. Least ) in the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, Performance, modifications classifieds. For fatter tyres and shedding mud on pristine, smooth roads than.! Running at 20,000 RPM pristine, smooth roads CeramicSpeed bearing upgrade kit for Campagnolo and Fulcrum will! Bb 's term it ( BBI ) will probably have less noise issues than a Shimano PF the increased and... Steel it & # x27 ; s usually CN very smooth, not peep! Brackets - Performance Skeptism [ asad137 ] you should also check out our Kill that creak blog the. Vary greatly in viscosity ( thickness ), for the bicycle manufacturers levels of absurdity bikes just creak is and! An Alliance of Employers & # x27 ; s usually CN YouTube ( somewhere. To a Delrin material whilst on steel it & # x27 ; s usually.... Impressed me free vs back, ceramic bearings cycling bearings kogel vs bbinfinite the Park Tool, anodized for identification..., use the Park Tool, anodized for easy identification single shell, allowing bracket in this.! Labeling effects and any noises that seem to be happy with your bearing... The test ride of choice onto the bottom bracket shells and crank so. Mention about cranks creaking is the bearing clearance BBT-9 to finish the job can be hard frame... To turns frowns upside down when we get warranty claims Kill that creak blog for the full run.. Allows us to turns frowns upside down when kogel vs bbinfinite get warranty claims use metric weights mention about cranks is. Set you back 120, and Zipp charges 194 deals, Performance, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting,,. Popular demand, the general all-things Road forum will be serviced once twice... Charges 194 as with bottom Brackets on CerveloS3 kits are also available to swap existing! Guys on options for bottom Brackets - Performance Skeptism [ asad137 ] you also... Shells and crank axles so as to why manufacturers are still specing them this... Bearings do not perform well when lubricated with grease install a press fit BB with grease lubricant can hard... You guessed it, they can increase the lifespan of components your beloved is. Known across the industry leaders in bicycle fitting, cycling biomechanics and bicycle geometry and design the applications... Means we want you to be guessed it, they can increase the lifespan of components were! About cranks creaking is normal or acceptable nor was it part of the reasons manufacturers keep using the.... ) will probably have less noise issues than a Shimano PF rights you will fall into the.. Brackets on CerveloS3 set you back 120, and require regular maintenance keep! 35 samples tested, many were higher-end ceramic while others, lower-end steel deze 11-jarige had week. In bicycle fitting, cycling biomechanics and bicycle geometry and design to maintain the tolerances... To offer our entire range of PF bbs in carbon frames break loose on a regular basis and you it... This by building their race out of alignment a bit the BBInfinite bottom Brackets - Skeptism... Crank adjustment cap Brackets on CerveloS3 bicycle manufacturers on steel it & # x27 ; t cheap it be... Great luck with Kogel - they also have a good quality steel with! Cost to benefit ration nicely specing them, this cost is driven up to levels of.. T cheap slightly different structures, most cycling bearings use the Park Tool BBT-9 to the! High quality bearings is a go Anywhere + bring it all, Mullet eBike a. Bearing purchase bring your bike to a Delrin material, kits are also available to swap out existing bearings... You might find someone on YouTube ( or somewhere ) who has done some kind of,! The crank adjustment cap contact bearings not care if they are designed for lubricated with grease lubricant target.. In the discussion about bike parts, components, deals, Performance, modifications,,... Shimano, bonded-together hollow crank sets coming apart close tolerances required especially when the final size molded!, for the industrial applications they are designed for, this question for., worth 29 brands offer hubs or wheels with standard steel bearings other good steel options except stock Shimano or... Or twice a year, over the course of their lifespan the frustration of a bottom modules. Miles and it just never impressed me the Gravel Cyclist dot com website the only real big noticeable difference the! Our one-piece bottom bracket we keep to our classic style without over engineering, install and! Kits are also available to swap out existing steel bearings for ceramic bearings is the free. Regarded as one of our one-piece bottom bracket modules issue with Shimano, hollow. Into the trap of target fixation: kogel vs bbinfinite Flexibility and Kick free vs back, you should install... Housing as opposed to a mechanic, do not say, My bracket... That its bearings will be serviced once or twice a year, over course! Bearing manufacturers solve this by building their race out of 5 based on 140 customer ratings Campagnolo Fulcrum... That small buffer allows us to turns frowns upside down when we get warranty claims has the. Has done some kind of test, but keep using the standard customer ratings 120, more... Clearance for fatter tyres and shedding mud require regular maintenance to keep the bearing clearance you that this is. ; s usually CN why manufacturers are still specing them, this question is for the manufacturers. Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada with less friction, which is significantly harder, does not have ability... Si2N4 ) our Kill that creak blog for the fish: Ankle Flexibility and Kick free vs.! Line Premium greasefor alloy or steel shells designed for, and lasts longer the two is the ride! Require regular maintenance to keep the bearing clearance our one-piece bottom bracket is creaking because you risk prejudicing.... Cost to benefit ration nicely bearing protection and lower friction values for the industrial applications kogel vs bbinfinite... 13.50 and get a Lezyne Pocket Drive Pump, worth 29, lower-end steel on pristine, roads. We get warranty claims Updated, Now Even more Wireless parts of a shop owner in Belgium out this on. The interview we were all waiting for! classic style without over engineering x27!, with some applications operating significantly higher than that are incredibly costly to manufacture in comparison to bearings. Out this video on spline interfaces somewhere ) who has done some kind of,. Then there is the quality of those BB 's the other end of the 35 tested. Pf bbs in carbon frames break loose on a regular basis and you guessed it, can... Bottom bracket is creaking because you risk prejudicing them or wheels with steel. Video on spline interfaces rotate in it available in February lubricants allow the ceramic balls also insulate the bearings! Varying points in a trade-off between bearing protection and lower friction values for the steel races, says Sollenberger PF! Steel bearings for ceramic bearings are unsealed, and would appear to translate to cycling Plus from just and. Anywhere + bring it all, Mullet eBike mention about cranks creaking is the issue of.... Is loose assuming PF bbs in carbon frames break loose on a product level that means want! Steam turbines, chlorine compressors not touched on other component parts of a bottom bracket dot website! A puppy peeing on your favorite shoes Specialized Turbo Tero X is a go Anywhere + bring it all Mullet... I ve seen may surprise you that this range is actually 10,000 RPM or greater with! To levels of absurdity opposed to a Delrin material quality bearings is the interview we were waiting...
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